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Thread: Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

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    Kop Legend Big Dave's Avatar
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    Default Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

    Stuck in the mire of an international break, I thought it would be nice to start the Man United thread a bit early. I hate international breaks, especially when we have a bit of momentum going and when our next game is United away.

    Tradition and lazy punditry suggests that form goes out the window in these types of matches and we can expect a derby atmosphere, but unless our boys have a massive international break hangover, I think we're going to slaughter them. United are as poor a team as I've ever seen and that team is depleted through injuries. Even their one world-class player De Gea isn't anymore.

    It sounds like Salah will be fit and it's just a bruise, so we go out with our strongest team. Wondering whether Alisson goes straight back in and how long Matip will be out.

    Dave's Team:

    Alisson

    TAA Matip (Gomez) VvD Robertson

    Hendo Fabinho Gini

    Salah Firmino Mane
    "It's cool."
    - Jurgen Klopp

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    Kop Hero RobR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    Stuck in the mire of an international break, I thought it would be nice to start the Man United thread a bit early. I hate international breaks, especially when we have a bit of momentum going and when our next game is United away.

    Tradition and lazy punditry suggests that form goes out the window in these types of matches and we can expect a derby atmosphere, but unless our boys have a massive international break hangover, I think we're going to slaughter them. United are as poor a team as I've ever seen and that team is depleted through injuries. Even their one world-class player De Gea isn't anymore.

    It sounds like Salah will be fit and it's just a bruise, so we go out with our strongest team. Wondering whether Alisson goes straight back in and how long Matip will be out.

    Dave's Team:

    Alisson

    TAA Matip (Gomez) VvD Robertson

    Hendo Fabinho Gini

    Salah Firmino Mane
    I agree with your team selection but think you are underestimating ManU. This is clearly a Top 12 team. The table doesn't lie. ;-)
    ‘How many mistakes are you allowed?’ Klopp asked the fourth official. ‘Because if it’s 15, you’ve got one left.’

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    Default Re: Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    Tradition and lazy punditry suggests that form goes out the window in these types of matches and we can expect a derby atmosphere, but unless our boys have a massive international break hangover, I think we're going to slaughter them.
    Going with lazy punditry here. Yes, there is a certain amount of you-never-know-in-a-derby, but at the same time, I do remember when we were crap and United were top of the pile, the one game, even more than the Everton one, we would get up for was this one. Languishing in mid-table (or lower) mediocrity, we often punched above our weight at home to United.

    However, one of my memories from MP Red days was with BD in the analyst's chair being seriously pissed off and annoyed that as poorly as United had played against us, that they were there for the taking, they had somehow found a way to deny us with a late equalizer or winner. I see so many similarities between us and them from '95-'10 at the moment. I have a feeling that we might not need to be on top of our game to win this.

    This is a piss-poor United side and Ole is far from a top class manager. I still don't get the sanctioning of the sale of Lukaku when you're short of forwards and I've yet to see him make in-game tactical adjustments, such as Klopp going to a diamond against Leicester, that have had any influence on the game. I'm struggling, even while being generous, to see any United player making our side. Maybe Maguire makes our bench? De Gea is better than Adrian, so that's one, but he doesn't get there ahead of Alisson.

    United are at 12th and if you look at the the teams directly above and below, that's the level of opponent. Wolves and Sheffield United. We've done SU away, playing poorly and for all Wolves' heroics at the Eitihad recently, I'm still not sure either of those two would scare us more than Leicester. So United shouldn't. On paper. Which is where games are not played.

    I do expect Operation Bus Park to be in full flight at OT, but absent injuries, we should have too much.

  4. #4
    Kop Hero RobR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

    Quote Originally Posted by Samarkand View Post
    Going with lazy punditry here. Yes, there is a certain amount of you-never-know-in-a-derby, but at the same time, I do remember when we were crap and United were top of the pile, the one game, even more than the Everton one, we would get up for was this one. Languishing in mid-table (or lower) mediocrity, we often punched above our weight at home to United.

    However, one of my memories from MP Red days was with BD in the analyst's chair being seriously pissed off and annoyed that as poorly as United had played against us, that they were there for the taking, they had somehow found a way to deny us with a late equalizer or winner. I see so many similarities between us and them from '95-'10 at the moment. I have a feeling that we might not need to be on top of our game to win this.

    This is a piss-poor United side and Ole is far from a top class manager. I still don't get the sanctioning of the sale of Lukaku when you're short of forwards and I've yet to see him make in-game tactical adjustments, such as Klopp going to a diamond against Leicester, that have had any influence on the game. I'm struggling, even while being generous, to see any United player making our side. Maybe Maguire makes our bench? De Gea is better than Adrian, so that's one, but he doesn't get there ahead of Alisson.

    United are at 12th and if you look at the the teams directly above and below, that's the level of opponent. Wolves and Sheffield United. We've done SU away, playing poorly and for all Wolves' heroics at the Eitihad recently, I'm still not sure either of those two would scare us more than Leicester. So United shouldn't. On paper. Which is where games are not played.

    I do expect Operation Bus Park to be in full flight at OT, but absent injuries, we should have too much.
    Maguire - Bench? Maybe

    De Gea over Adrian? I'm not so sure. De Gea has looked like crap for Spain over the last two years because he's not good at playing the way the rest of the team plays. Too much of a static shot-stopper not enough of a mobile sweeper-keeper. He has felt like a better Mignolet, an ice hockey goalie on grass. Adrian might be preferred as keeper because he's a better fit with our style. Having De Gea in there is a bit like having the old, 12-Cruyff-turns-while-the-chance-goes-begging Lallana or the old 4-touches-to-control-the-ball-while-the-run-in-behind-is-wasted Can in there.

    There is no stadium in English football as intimidating as OT when the crowd is in full voice, screaming: "Park!, Park!, Park!"
    ‘How many mistakes are you allowed?’ Klopp asked the fourth official. ‘Because if it’s 15, you’ve got one left.’

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    Default Re: Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

    Good point about De Gea; maybe he wouldn’t replace Adrian. Which is only further fodder for how far United have fallen. If I remember, when signed he was hailed as the best in the world. Maybe he was, but I’d be pretty sure Real are far from avid now on their pursuit.

    I believe Rashford and Pogballs will be fit. I expect Salah to be so. The midfield is usually our biggest lottery, but I wonder if Klopp holds Alisson back for the Genk away game in midweek?

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    Default Re: Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

    Isn’t it Sunday already?

    Alisson to return it looks like. Two schools of thought here:
    1. Big game to throw him into after 2+ months
    2. He’s a world class keeper and if he’s not capable of coming into this game, well.....

    I trust the backroom staff. If they thought OT might be a bridge too far, then it would have been Adrian which is far from a bad option. Win/win, I guess.

    Meanwhile, De Gea got injured on international duty and is probably not available, so if anyone knows of a United fan who has gloves...because I read the name of the United back up keeper and had never heard of him and can’t remember his name.

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    Default Re: Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

    Pogballs definitely out, De Gea, probably so.

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    Default Re: Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

    Other than calling Ol' Whiskey Arse the greatest manager of all time (Roy Hodgson, surely?), Other than calling Ol' Whiskey Arse the greatest manager of all time (Roy Hodgson, surely?), a really good article about what's wrong with United and what's so right with Liverpool and why we should win.
    Last edited by Samarkand; October 17th, 2019 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Fixed link.

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    Kop Hero RobR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

    "In all but one game this season, Liverpool has created more and better chances than its opponent, according to Opta’s Expected Goals metric. It has, in that sense, deserved to win all of its games, the visit to Chelsea apart.

    That cognitive dissonance hints at an alternative explanation for why so many coaches have felt their teams might have avoided defeat against Liverpool, if only they had not made one or other telling mistake. Where Manchester City’s great strength is in making itself look good, at least part of Liverpool’s success can be explained by its capacity to make its opponent look bad."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/s...ss&partner=rss
    ‘How many mistakes are you allowed?’ Klopp asked the fourth official. ‘Because if it’s 15, you’ve got one left.’

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    Default Re: Man United v Liverpool: Ole vs. Allez

    Saw that article. When United were in their heyday, I always found the single most annoying and frustrating thing was, even in games other than ours, they were clearly second best and yet they somehow found a way to win or salvage a draw.

    Second best in every area of the pitch and yet the scoreboard would say otherwise. Liverpool seem, so far this season, to be nicely down that particular road. Mentality monsters, as Klopp would say.

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