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Thread: The return of the Tremendous. Leicester home.

  1. #11
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    Default Re: The return of the Tremendous. Leicester home.

    Spot on. If you look at Keane’a panel contributions on any station they’re all the same. Pull your socks up! Show some courage! These players need to take a look at themselves! They should be ashamed to wear the United shirt!

    Where I do credit Neville, and it’s not for the Valencia effort, it’s that he does explain the game and tactics from an inside baseball perspective. As in, you can’t make the tackle there and expect to stop that attack or some such. Carragher is the same. Both analyze and explain, often throwing in insights that non-players would miss.

    Keane? If you took away his criticisms, you’d be left with precious more than hello and cheers. Delivered snarlingly.
    Last edited by Samarkand; October 11th, 2019 at 04:54 PM.

  2. #12
    Kop Legend Big Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: The return of the Tremendous. Leicester home.

    In fairness, it is fun to hear him slam United...
    "It's cool."
    - Jurgen Klopp

  3. #13
    Kop Hero RobR's Avatar
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    Default Re: The return of the Tremendous. Leicester home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    In fairness, it is fun to hear him slam United...
    Some of this (my impatience with analysts) is because I never saw these guys play. I didn't have access to top-level English football as a kid (although I remember Notts Forest and Crystal Palace so there must have been some way to watch some level of it). That means that to me Roy Keane isn't an older version of someone whose skill/work rate I admired. He's just a whiny old jerk with a bad attitude. Much the same can be said for Andy Gray, Alan Shearer, and so on. I'm judging them entirely based on how they do their *new* job having never seen them in their old one. Even people I saw play (Gary Neville, Rio Ferdinand, etc.) still get rated on their job now and not on nostalgic memories of then.

    By that standard, most of these guys are crap. Even worse, most of your "presenters" are crap as well. Sturgeon's Law in action.* I agree with Samarkand on Gary Neville's "inside football" insights and to a lesser degree Jamie Carragher. I like Ian Wright but that might be because he's got an engaging personality. I also enjoy Lee Dixon. I'm not burning to hear color commentary from Sami Hyppia or Luis Garcia even though I enjoyed watching them play. Any more than I'd be dying to hear them sing, watch them ski, or eat a meal they prepared. I assume that some small percentage of people have the insight and ability to explain football in a way that increases my enjoyment of the game. What a shame it is that the only ones I will ever see among that small group are those who played the game well, in England, on a high-level team. I'm missing out on the geniuses who played badly for Havant & Waterlooville or spent their precious U-16 years working at Tesco.

    End or rant. Sorry about that. ;-)

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law
    ‘How many mistakes are you allowed?’ Klopp asked the fourth official. ‘Because if it’s 15, you’ve got one left.’

  4. #14
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    Default Re: The return of the Tremendous. Leicester home.

    In his day, Roy Keane was world class, absolutely, completely, without question. There was no one better than him in that defensive midfield role and he also was a superb captain.

    But as often happens, when you have one skill set in spades, you can often be seriously short in others. Keane has a serious deficiency in empathy; he can never see anything from anyone’s POV other than his and every problem can only be solved as he would solve it.

    There’s a good baseball story that explains this phenomenon. Ted Williams, probably the greatest hitter of all time, and if not, certainly in the top 3. His worst stats were against curve balls; he could hit them better than many in the game, but compared to his hitting stats on sliders, fastballs, etc., his curve ball hitting was not as good as the others. In retirement he was the manager of the Boston Braves (I think). Whenever a pitcher would get into trouble, the sign would come from Ted in the dugout, throw curve balls. Lots of them. All the time. On the basis that if he couldn’t hit the curveball well in his prime, neither could anyone else. Regardless of what the hitter’s stats said.

    And Roy Keane’s solution to every problem on and off the field is to throw curveballs. Because that’s all he knows and what’s good or bad enough for Roy is good or bad enough for all humanity.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: The return of the Tremendous. Leicester home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samarkand View Post
    In his day, Roy Keane was world class, absolutely, completely, without question. There was no one better than him in that defensive midfield role and he also was a superb captain.

    But as often happens, when you have one skill set in spades, you can often be seriously short in others. Keane has a serious deficiency in empathy; he can never see anything from anyone’s POV other than his and every problem can only be solved as he would solve it.

    There’s a good baseball story that explains this phenomenon. Ted Williams, probably the greatest hitter of all time, and if not, certainly in the top 3. His worst stats were against curve balls; he could hit them better than many in the game, but compared to his hitting stats on sliders, fastballs, etc., his curve ball hitting was not as good as the others. In retirement he was the manager of the Boston Braves (I think). Whenever a pitcher would get into trouble, the sign would come from Ted in the dugout, throw curve balls. Lots of them. All the time. On the basis that if he couldn’t hit the curveball well in his prime, neither could anyone else. Regardless of what the hitter’s stats said.

    And Roy Keane’s solution to every problem on and off the field is to throw curveballs. Because that’s all he knows and what’s good or bad enough for Roy is good or bad enough for all humanity.
    On the obliviousness of great talent front, my favorite Stan Musial story:

    Mr. Musial saw nothing complicated in succeeding at the plate. “The secret of hitting?” he once said. “Relax, concentrate — and don’t hit a fly ball to center field.”

    He told a fellow Hall of Famer, Ralph Kiner, “If you want to hit ground balls, hit the top third of the ball. If you want to hit line drives, hit the center. If you want home runs, hit the bottom third of the ball. It’s simple.”


    Succeeding in hitting any piece of the baseball 3 out of 10 times makes you a damn good hitter. I have no idea what choosing which fraction of it to hit makes you ;-)

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/ob...NrI/story.html
    ‘How many mistakes are you allowed?’ Klopp asked the fourth official. ‘Because if it’s 15, you’ve got one left.’

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