September 21st, 2004, 12:16 AM
Pretty grim today. Not much to cheer about.
Best that can be said was it was better than some of the awfulperformances from last year.
I think the main message was that Monaco was a false dawn. When faced with a team willing to run and challenge us, we crumbled.
United offered a lot of running and a tiny bit of skill, but even that was too much for us.
The player by player descriptions are not going to look good, in that not one Liverpool player played up to their potential.
Dudek: How he failed to get to the ball that hit the post was completely beyond me. It was a slow grounder, and he simply failed to get down and dive. United second goal was right at him, yet he couldnt get it. There is no doubt that our proper goalie would have stopped it. Shame on Dudek, Shame on Snr. Benitez for picking him, and having the gall to tell us he's a good goalie.
Josemi: At fault for the first goal. Real schoolboy error. Thats the second goal he's been responsible for. He needs time, but the indications are not good at all.
Sami. Very shaky, particularly in the first 20 minutes. Incredibly fortunate not to concede a pen. Improved as Ruud tired / time went on.
jaime C. Battled gamely,
Riise. Repeatedly caught out defensively, both in positioning and in tackling. How was it that Sami had to cover for him, in giving up the free kick for goal number one. At fault for goal number 2. Made no useful offensive contribution offensively
Stevie G. Looked crocked from early on. Too bad. without him we will not get into the top half of the table.
Finan. Got found out in a competitive midfield.
Alonzo: all his little touches which looked so nice against Monaco got him nowhere today. He's got a lot to learn about English football.
Hamman. Up to his usual tricks, not running offthe ball. Whose bright idea was it for him to take that free kick at the end?
Garcia. Some crunching tackles from Keane and friends, and he didnt want to know after that. Like Alonzo, he'll need a lot of time to understand English football.
Kewell.made littlecontribution offensively. Poor crossing, and ran into defenders repeatedly. Gave the ball away far too much. Didnt help out Riise as much as he did against Monaco.
Cisse. Disappointing. Embarrassed himself early on, almost missing his kick when given a decent chance. Didnt chase a few balls which he could have got to, which is unforgivable.
Baros. More effective that Cisse, but always with his head down
Benitez. Got himself deluded (as perhaps we all were) by the performance against Monaco. His picking Dudek today was ludicrous, and it cost us two points. I know which goalie Brian Clough would have chosenbut then he was never big on Polish goalies...
Last edited by Flying Pig; September 21st, 2004 at 01:31 AM.
September 21st, 2004, 01:57 AM
we got outplayed by a very mediocre team today. frickin wes brown was dribbling all over the place. they had o'shea starting in midfield and carroll in the goal. and silvestre beat us. ugh. if van nistelrooy scores 2, you hafta accept that. but silvestre? what a disgrace
regarding hamann at the end, didnt he score on a similar free kick against them a few years ago? i think it was against them. but in any case, i was surprised not to see Riise up there to blast one, or Xavi, who had two nice free kicks, one of which led to our own goal.
September 21st, 2004, 06:04 AM
Well depressed not only at the defeat but at the manner we conceded it. My thoughts for what they're worth:
Dudek - gotta be dropped after this performance, has absolutely no command of the 6 yard box whatsoever. Bring on Kirky, NOW!
Cisse - I've said before and will say it again, looks on a totally different wavelength to his colleagues. Personally I'd bench and start Baros upfront with Garcia for the next game. Repeatedly caught offside.
Alonso - just not at the races, on this performance is not the solution to our problems. To similar in playing style to Didi and is not going to provide the goals from midfield we so sorely need.
Josemi - for me has too similar problems to Riise, looks good going forward but is way too easy to dribble past when on the back foot. A great shot in the 2nd half tho which the replays showed was a lot closer than initially looked. Why not try Riise or Josemi in midfield?
Sami & JamieC - not a great defensive partnership. Sami has been a great Liverpool player but we need more quality at the back. What has happened to Henchoz????
Finnan - are we falling into the same pattern as le Boss here? a tryer but why are we playing a defender in midfield? (a bit rich coming from me after suggesting trying Josemi/JAR in midfield only 2 points ago!) is our squad that lacking in depth? why not give Warnock a chance?
Hamann - that free-kick, why oh why?!@# I would have let anyone of 4 other players take it at that point, or was he the only one with the bottle to take it at such a crucial point in the game? they hardly looked like they were queueing up for it?
El Boss - why were we playing so deep? it was hardly surprising that ManU were all over our goal, we barely got out of our half apart from a bright spell during the 2nd half. Even when we had the ball we were reluctant to push forward in numbers, we break way too slow on the counter attack.
Was there anyone on the right post for the 1st goal? we look so fragile on set pieces around our area, defensively we are diabolical. Considering we have 8 foot tall Sami why can't we get a head on the ball? why didn't Dudek come out for it either? Rafa built his reputation at Valencia on being a solid defensive side, so why do we look so god awful?
When we get into the final third we seem to run out of ideas, look like we would rather pass teams to death, and are shot shy. We need the players to start having the confidence to start hitting it from distance,
Pig, you mention the Spanish lads finding it hard going when the tackles started flying in and I totally agree. Did no-one warn them just how hot the kitchen was gonna get? they should have been primed for this and ready and waiting to mix it up.
When I saw the Scum line up (O'Shea in midfield, no Smith upfront) I was rubbing my hands with excitement, this was a patched up side against a full strength Liverpool, I realise that the team is still in a state of transition but this was more like the team that capitulated to Bolton than crushed Monaco. We were repeatedly 2nd place to the tackles, passes, headers and lose balls. I find it hard to believe that the Scum were more motivated for this game than we were.
And now it would appear that we have lost Stevie G for at least a couple of weeks and at worst a couple of months which raises another question - we can't be a side that relies on one player to carries us in games, we need more class and depth in our squad.
I apologise for being so negative but I am struggling to find any positives at the moment
Ps. I just realised that I forgot to mention Kewell. Which I think was a subconscious comment on his performance...!
Pps. Scouse Paul - what was the reaction from our travelling fans? I hope you didn't get too wet mate!
Last edited by Els; September 21st, 2004 at 07:35 AM.
September 21st, 2004, 08:20 AM
I guess I'll throw my 2 penneth worth in, as this is only the 2nd game this season I have seen start to finish, maybe I'll revert back to listening on the radio!
Generally the same thoughts as above, what really pisses me off is how bad Man Utd are and how average we looked against them. My thoughts on the players.........
Josemi - Another 10 minutes and he was off, couldn't handle Giggs or Ronaldo when he switched over. Nice shot, but not good enough generally.
Riise - FP, surprised how placid your comments were. He was horrible going forward and embarrasing at the back. Dare I say it but Traore would be a better option. Is Warnock capable of playing left back? 2nd goal his fault and there is no excuse.
Carra - Solid, but as mentioned before the partnership with Sami is not the answer long term.
Sami - Look very cumbersome and RVN gave him the run around first half.
Finnan - Lack of talent replaced by effort, but again not enough of our players put that effort in. On another day his performance would have rated mediocre, but compared to the rest of our team today it looked above average.
Kewell - One of him or Riise have to be dropped. I just can't explain his loss of form. Where is the Kewell that used to jink around defenders and blast shots on target from the edge of the box? There was an occasion in the first half where the ball worked out to him on the left of the area and he was one on one with the defender. It screamed for a step over or feint before shooting, and Harry pushed the ball straight into the defenders legs and fell over. Sums him up.
Gerrard - Not at the races today, wonder how long he was injured before he came off? Can't always carry us.
Alonso - Our best player today (in my opinion), but that doesn't say much. Great effort sencond half. Excellent passing second half but not enough of his team wanted to join in, my first viewing and I was impressed, he got stuck in also which surprised me.
Garcia - Nothing going today, didn't want to know. Too many fancy flicks and not enough basic passing.
Ciise - A sad excuse for a forward. Emile put in more effort in the first 10 minutes of a game than he did today. Just didn't want to know, not what I was hoping to see. Rio should have been carried off with an oxygen mask and he got away with a canter for 90 minutes.
Hamann - His detractors will knock him, but he impressed today. only one who joined in with Alonso. His passing may be basic and sideways, but at least he kept hold of the ball instead of giving it away. Free kick at the end was shambolic though.
Baros - Not enough support, slightly better than Ciise though.
We were so lacking on the bench (bar CK1), chasing a game and it screamed for us to bring on Le Talent, even Smicer (had he been fit) would have been welcomed! Do we need 2 central midfielders on the bench?
I am so mad right now, just because scum were there for the taking and we were so poor.
Hope to see Neil Mellor on the bench at the weekend, Milan to start for me.
Scouse Paul, my uncle turned his phone off so I couldn't ask him about the crowds reaction, or running the gauntlet out of OT after the game, how was it there?
September 21st, 2004, 09:34 AM
Terrible performance,seems when the opposition Man U, Bolton,Tottenham come at us we simply aren't good enough.
Can't even give a player rating,all were poor,no heart and that starts from management thru.
Did anyone tell the lads we were playing the scum,we'll have one tough time against the blue nose bast&rds the way we're playing.
Not enough tough English snot i'm afraid.
Cisse talks some crap,still waiting to see the talent.
Will be taking a nap til JANUARY.
September 21st, 2004, 01:13 PM
This implies that Kewell was once good. Kewell had ONE really good season at Leeds followed by half-hearted mediocrity for the rest of his career. He was crap for LFC all last season - no exceptions. He doesn't contribute a single thing to the overall makeup of the team. He is lazy, bereft of ideas and is unfit to wear the Tranmere or Marine shirts let alone the Liverpool one. Leeds definitely robbed LFC getting 2M for that git. (I don't like Harry Kewell, and I think it's beginning to show.)
Originally Posted by Delaware Red
September 21st, 2004, 01:41 PM
I take some exception to the implied critique of Marine, my home team, Mr. S......
Originally Posted by Samarkand
September 21st, 2004, 02:05 PM
Sorry, I guess you are correct.
I was thinking of his goals and performances against Everton and Blackburn last season, but remember being very drunk at both games, so don't remember much.........
September 21st, 2004, 04:12 PM
So what are ya? Red or........well, what colour do Marine wear anyway?
Originally Posted by Flying Pig
September 21st, 2004, 05:36 PM
If this is the opinion why did we all get so excited at the time of his signing?
Originally Posted by Samarkand
It's easy to target HK but what about the other players on patrol last night? to me it looked like a team that lacked motivation against one of our biggest rivals.
Last edited by Samarkand; September 21st, 2004 at 06:49 PM.